2716: Is there a blockrate issue ?

Description

First of all, i have heard that the staff has already done a lot of researchs and tests on this and i'm here giving my personnal tests and feelings after a lot of researchs on the net on the subject but i admit that we need to find more sources or a consensus as some are contradictory and shield block management has changed over the years.

After xping my saracen paladin from 1 to 50 before the insta 50 and having Shield and chants at my level i have seen myself dying quite some times around 3/4 green mobs with large shield and dex capped (and yes i know how to double refresh ;) )

Seeing that i after that tried a common test that was an easy task for a paladin in epic armor on live around SI : taking 4/5 green giants in dartmoor to check when the block / damage taking would break my toon and was afraid that i wasn't able to tank better than an armsman (no more no less)

I even tried with MoB 4 +50shield +15 (templated capped) and tried to kill malroch solo in DF but i was still having a special feeling like the blockrate was low.

Doing some RvR tests too and trying my best to have the guard ability function with front side angle taken into account and 50+15 shield + mob 4 i still had the same feeling.

It seemed to me that :

- the block rate seem nerfed in RvR compared to PvE though it should be the same at our patch level (check sources given below please)

- the block rate calculation seems off (i should have 99% block rate against 3 targets with large shield, especialy green / yellow mobs, as long as i don't pass 4 people/mobs attacking me or my guard)

- there is a large gap in blockrate at the moment your pass from yellow to orange mobs and the block rate seems to stay the same from orange to purple (some tests done in DF against orange necyomancers and purple nightmares)

- WS should not be taken into account in blockrate (see sources given below)

- more targets than the shield base block capability (1 small, 2 medium, 3 large) should diminish the blockrate % for each further attacker but still be blockable. (might need more sources)

- The blockrate with bonus/malus should be recalculated before applying the cap (feeling considering the capability of some block bots at the time, a friend of mine had a video where he was being guarded by a paladin as a theurgist against 4 mid tanks but can't get to find it back :/ ..., and by memory => more sources needed)

hope i covered it all and helped the community to have a better server :)

Reproduction Steps

1. Make a toon with block capability
2. instant 50
3. put 50 shield
4. take instant RR5
5. take MoB 3=>4
6. check with mobs / players

Intended Behavior

Looking for a lot of infos from 1.20 to 1.65, it seems like the blockrate has been always upped (especially in PvP) and nerfed after 1.69/1.75 (as there are a lot of infos, i'll post some here and complete on the next section, especially the nerfs coming after 1.65)

here are some infos on the supposed block rate formula and others :

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Dexterity
chance = (50 + ((shield - 1) * (10 / 2)) + ((dexterity * 2 - 100) / 4) + (shieldspec * 10)) / 10

"There is a cap of 80% chance to block when facing one opponent, 90% when facing 2, and 99% when facing 3 or more."

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.53
NEW THINGS AND BUG FIXES
- Found and fixed a bug that was causing players to not evade, parry and block in RvR at the same rate that they were parrying/blocking/evading against monsters. All characters who evade, block, and/or parry should now see themselves parrying/blocking/evading much more often in RvR.

infos on multiple attackers
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.22
MAGIC SYSTEM CHANGESEdit
Targeted spells now benefit more from extra attackers. The bonus per extra attacker is now 3.75% instead of 2%, so a full group attacking a monster should give a bonus of approximately 25% to the success rate for targeted spells (as opposed to 14%). Note that pets and elementals contribute to the number of extra attackers. This means that nukers in a group should be much more effective than they used to be. Casters who are not in groups will of course not be effected by these changes.


Theese tests seem to prove that the cap are applied after calculations (capped blockrate independently of the spec of the attacker)
https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/daimar-base-weapon-defense-penetration

here are some tests on def pen and WS showing the minimal to none effect on WS to def pen block
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/weaponskill_defense_piercing.html

Engage will still function exactly as it did prior to the cap being lowered.

PvE blocking rates currently depend on the size of the shield being used. Currently, the blocking rate caps are as follows :
Small Shield: 80%
Medium Shield: 90%
Large Shield: 99%

Evidence

Here are some screens of my tests on Uthgard

http://imgur.com/a/JjdKs
http://imgur.com/a/FYC8k
http://imgur.com/a/GMBda
http://imgur.com/a/NAFBA(dying on 3 yellows -_-' ... )
http://imgur.com/a/3gpuS

The log of the last tests with 2 yellows + 1 green
http://pastebin.com/X3Q3euSJ

And here are the complete infos of the previous section

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Dexterity
chance = (50 + ((shield - 1) * (10 / 2)) + ((dexterity * 2 - 100) / 4) + (shieldspec * 10)) / 10

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/2354.shtml
Q: Is there a cap on the chance to block? There is a 50% cap on the chance to parry and evade but no solid information on the cap for the chance to block. In a grab bag way back in 2002 Sanya stated that there was NO cap on blocking but that does not sound true anymore. I am trying to figure out if specing 50 shield + 12 + RR with a few levels of master of blocking is so far over the cap that the spec points and realm points were just wasted.
Thanks for your help :)

A: I die inside whenever I see a question dating back to 2002, which I call "the summer of my discontent." There will be an entire chapter of my tell all book devoted to a former grab bag answer person.
Anyway, here's the response I got from the CodeMaster, who is very nice and one of the original coders of Camelot: "There is a cap of 80% chance to block when facing one opponent, 90% when facing 2, and 99% when facing 3 or more."

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.34
- Fixed a bug where shields in poor condition did not block correctly. This has been fixed; you should now see a higher number of blocks.

http://www.levelattack.de/daoc/daoc_news/patch135.html
- You now will correctly block/evade/parry when not in combat mode. A bug was preventing you from using these abilities when not in combat mode.

http://www.levelattack.de/daoc/daoc_news/patch136.html
- Fixed a bug, that was causing shields to consider incorrectly. You may also find they block a tad more frequently as well.

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.48
- Attack speed debuff spells no longer keep the target from evading or blocking. It now literally only slows down their attacks.

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.53
NEW THINGS AND BUG FIXES
- Found and fixed a bug that was causing players to not evade, parry and block in RvR at the same rate that they were parrying/blocking/evading against monsters. All characters who evade, block, and/or parry should now see themselves parrying/blocking/evading much more often in RvR.

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.62
NEW THINGS AND BUG FIXES
- We found and fixed the infamous "Block/Parry bug" - the one that caused players to block and parry less often when attacked by a grouped opponent. This change will have the most effect in RvR situations where you are fighting an opponent who is in a group. This fix will also fix an issue with opponents appearing to be "in melee" and having bolt spells fired at them blocked more often than intended.


infos on multiple attackers
http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.22
MAGIC SYSTEM CHANGESEdit
Targeted spells now benefit more from extra attackers. The bonus per extra attacker is now 3.75% instead of 2%, so a full group attacking a monster should give a bonus of approximately 25% to the success rate for targeted spells (as opposed to 14%). Note that pets and elementals contribute to the number of extra attackers. This means that nukers in a group should be much more effective than they used to be. Casters who are not in groups will of course not be effected by these changes.


Theese tests seem to prove that the cap are applied after calculations (capped blockrate independently of the spec)
https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/daimar-base-weapon-defense-penetration

here are some tests on def pen and WS
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/weaponskill_defense_piercing.html



http://web.archive.org/web/20101130115659/http://camelotherald.com/news/news_article.php?t=game&storyid=3691
Joanne Laroche, Grab Bag, Sep 19, 2008 wrote:
Q. Can you clarify the 1.96a Blocking rate change? Is that for all PvE/PvP or just for PvP and does it affect Engage?

A. Fully prepared for this question, the Equalizer explains: PvE and RvR block rates have two separate caps. The change mentioned in the 1.96a Pendragon Patch Notes only affects the RvR block cap. The PvE block cap has not been altered.
This change does not affect Engage - Engage will still function exactly as it did prior to the cap being lowered.

Joanne Laroche, Grab Bag, Sep 26, 2008 wrote:
Q. From the last Grab Bag: "PvE and RvR block rates have two separate caps". I just searched in the knowledgebase, but could not find what are the PvE block rates (Shield and Parry). It would help deciding whether I would get "master of parry" or not. What are they?

A. The Equalizer pretended to have a shield in his hand thinking I wouldn’t wait for an answer then he said: PvE blocking rates currently depend on the size of the shield being used. Currently, the blocking rate caps are as follows for PvE:
Small Shield: 80%
Medium Shield: 90%
Large Shield: 99%
Note: These values only affect PvE - in RvR, blocking is currently capped at 75%, and 60% on Pendragon.


http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_Notes:_Version_1.88F
he block rate for PvP combat has been capped at 75%.
The block rate for PvE combat remains unchanged.
The block rate for Engage remains unchanged.

http://web.archive.org/web/20100113125021/http://www.camelotherald.com/article.php?id=452
Test version 1.96a (Pendragon) patch notes wrote:
CLASS CHANGES AND FIXES
Shield Changes
- Shield Block Cap has been lowered to 60%.

block nerf complaints on 2011
http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/daoc-after-blocking-nerf-is-terrible-and-not-fun.250249054/

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